Mpreg

[wildestranger]

So. Mpreg. Do you love it? Hate it? Can't be bothered to think about it?

I find myself curious about the phenomenon of mpreg in fandom. Some people seem to hate it with an unholy passion. Some perceive it as OMG the cutest thing eva. A plot device, a source of crackfic, an embodiment of patriarchal control system, an embodiment of feminist subversion, mostly an embodiment of bad writing?

I want to know what you think about mpreg, and most importantly, why. If you dislike it, what do you dislike about it? If you enjoy it, what do you think is good/interesting/sexy about it?

Is it the association with bad writing, silly teenagers who cannot imagine romance without babies and marriage? I used to be wary of such things until I read eutychides's Things That Change (which is not only a devastatingly well written mpreg, but a fic so moving and memorable that after finishing reading it at three in the morning, I had to go back the next day and reread the whole thing).

Also, if I were to write an mpreg fic, would you read it? That said, I am writing one so you shall be put to the test in a few weeks. ;)

Comments

[silver-osiris.livejournal.com]

In general- I despise it. I find that most MPREG fics also have the male as so feminized and out of character that he might as well have just grown the vagina. Don't get me wrong- I have no problem with girly boys when the situation and their character calls for it, but most of the time I find it just annoying. And there's nothing wrong with being feminine either, but again- I like to see it done with the right characters and not as a replacement for actual female characters. I have read a couple of MPREG's where I felt like it was well done, but 95% of the time if I see MPREG I tend to turn the other way.

[silentauror.livejournal.com]

I hate it. Nothing, not even bad grammar, will get me running from a fic faster. It's not about good writing versus bad writing to me; it's more that I'm ideologically opposed to it for reasons that others have already stated. But as starrysummer said, I'm also just not interested in pregnancy in general. Interest-wise, I'd be more or less uninterested in a story wherein the male couple adopts a child, but I'd be all for it in terms of how I feel about the topic. I just don't need to read about it, you know? Not interesting.

[thickets.livejournal.com]

I like mpreg because it's sexy, and I don't feel the need to justify it any further than that, especially not in a fandom which frequently indulges in watersports, vomitplay, and bestiality. I don't ask people who read and write those fics why they like them ... why does it matter? It's something they enjoy. It doesn't hurt anybody. The end.

There is plenty of bad mpreg out there (which is kind of fun to read, in my opinion, like most badfic). There's plenty of horrible fic of all sorts in existence. There are also many very well written mpregs out there, the classic being "A Life More Ordinary" by Lexin.

Yes, when you have a reasonably intelligent writer at the helm, mpreg can be explained adequately using magic. I also enjoy genderbending fic a lot, which can also incorporate (m?)preg and I'm interested androgyny. Not everything has to be confined to one gender or another.

As for its exclusion of women ... let me tell you. This is a problem that is pervasive in ALL of slash fiction, and mpreg is not the source of it. (Honestly, if a way were determined that men could have babies in the real world, I'd be all for it. Let them have some of the trouble. Fuck sacred womenhood. Not all women want to have babies, you know.) I'm sure many of the female readers of slashfic who object to mpreg for this reason probably don't bat an eyelash at the million ways that female characters are demonized in slash fiction. Usually it's the good old "Tonks/Ginny/Narcissa is obsessed with Remus/Harry/Lucius, who is in turn in love with Sirus/Draco/Snape, and so she comes up with a crazy scheme to murder the other man." Or Ginny goes crazy and turns out to be possessed by Voldemort, or Tonks is really Peter Pettigrew using Polyjuice, etc. Or any and all of them are evil SLUTS. The correlation between sexism in slash and mpreg is "All (?) mpreg is slash, some slash is sexist; therefore, some mpreg is sexist, but not all mpreg is sexist." Maybe people should deal with the sexism problem in slash in general instead of just pointing to mpreg as being a problem area.

[ink-monkey.livejournal.com]

I've been told that writing is doing bad things to good characters. To me, an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy is a Very Bad Thing indeed, and twice as bad when you happen to be A) teenaged and B) a teenaged boy. Therefore, I use it as a plot device once on a while, but never as the main focus of the story, or as something nice or fluffy or romantic. It's usually the cause of a great deal of angst, revulsion and disgust, and not just in my reviewers, either.

[alyxbradford.livejournal.com]

I Just Don't Freaking Get It.

That's really all. I think it's bizarre, an abuse of the "it's magic so it's okay!" excuse, and usually poorly done besides. I won't infringe on anyone else's right to like it, and lord knows I've got kinks of my own that others disapprove of, but I just find it too wtf inducing to even look at.

It also just bugs me that it's taking the one thing women have and giving it to men. You want to have a pregnant character? Use a freaking female character.

The whole thing tends to remind me of Life of Brian. "It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them." "But you can't have babies." "Don't you oppress me." "Where's the fetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?" And I'm with Reg on that one.

[accioslash.livejournal.com]

I agree with geoviki, it's a plot device just like forced bondings or time travel fics that in and of themselves aren't necessarily good or bad. However, it's also a kink and not necessarily something a fan can give specific reasons for enjoying. I love mpreg in all forms, all fandoms, under any conditions. My pairing of choice in HP is Snape/Harry, but if I know a mpreg is out there with other characters, I'll read it.

[lyras.livejournal.com]

YOU ARE SUCH A TEASE.

I do not read MPREG, having been burned fairly early on by having to beta one. And it was god-awful, AND full of terrible, pseudo-Tolkienesque prose. MPREG clearly brings out my INNER CAPSLOCK.

That said, if you write mpreg, I will investigate it. Cautiously. Because I'll be interested to see how you make it even remotely believable.

[das-kabinett.livejournal.com]

I unabashadly love a good mpreg. And, they aren't all bad, not by any means. I haven't read that many in Harry Potter, but I love them in SGA. There are several amazing ones that just about make me die with laughter on every reread. Then again, of course, I like reading about pregnancies and young children generally. I'm not sure why, I just enjoy the dynamic-- especially when you see the necessary shift in a realtionship from us to the kid, and the required balancing act.

I've been desperate to read a fic where a couple tries that and fucks it up royally, causing the kid or each other psychological stress or something, but I haven't found it yet.

The issues with misogyny and feminizing men are, in my opinion, a generalized problem with slash fanfic rather than something specific to mpreg. It can definitely be avoided, however, though the potential is strong and always there. Some of the thereotical appeal lies in that "transgressing of gender norms" or whatever, but I find it mostly annoying. Speaking of "transgressing gender norms," I think a good mpreg has the characters deal with the WTF factor in a way that acknowledges the difference in gender, but doesn't harp on it. Balance, I guess, in everything.

It is daft, granted, but that's why I like it.

[kelly-holden.livejournal.com]

99% (or was it 95%, I forget) of everything on the internet is crap, and mpreg is no exception. I think mpreg is very silly idea in realistic fandoms and semi-realistic sci-fi fandoms; however, HP is one of a very few universes where it's reasonably sensible, but even then only as an intentional spell, not a het-style accident (and for people going on about anatomy, when Barty Crouch Jr. was polyjuiced he was missing the same body parts as the real Moody, so I see no reason what-so-ever that a mpreg spell couldn't do some rearranging).
I don't read it as a genre, but I will read fics in HP and other reasonable universes that happen to be mpreg if I find no other reason to reject the fic (and putting men OOC by feminising them is a pretty darn good reason to stop reading IMO).

[quivo.livejournal.com]

You know, I've read through all of the replies (I think), and I do agree with a lot of the mpreg issues they voice i.e. feminisation, crackiness, schmoopiness, etc. But newsflash, I'm still interested in writing and reading (relatively good) instances of it, because it's challenging to pull off well, and the possibilities for character exploration are too tasty to pass up. As for the pitfalls, crackiness isn't going to be a problem for me in the fic I'm sorta-kinda planning to write, mostly because the fic's cracky on its own already, and schmoopiness has not yet found its way into my fiction (I hope. I really, really hope). And, of course, though the feminisation/de-feminisation/woman-excluding Force is strong with the mpreg genre, it's spread over the entire slash genre just as thickly as the cocks. So if I (we?) tread carefully, I can avoid those pitfalls if I so choose.

One reason against mpreg that does get my goat is the whole 'it takes something away from women' bit. Granted, it does, but, like an earlier commenter said, who cares? I do sometimes wonder how it would be like if pregnancy was a choice that everyone could make for themselves. Not that I want to essentially carve this into my fic(s) or whatnot, but I just don't see the problem with 'taking it away', so to speak. Pregnancy isn't the only standout thing about being a woman, I feel.

Anyway, as to the real question. I'd probably read your mpreg if the plot sounded interesting. I just figure that this whole thing is supposed to be an interesting ride for authors and readers. Luckily, we can choose what to read and write, so you can avoid stuff you don't want. If you feel like taking the plunge just because, go ahead :)

[signy1.livejournal.com]

If the very concept of mpreg (along with all extant variations on the theme) vanished tomorrow from the minds and memories of all humanity, I would cheer, dance in the streets, and send up bloody fireworks in orgiastic rapture.

I think that sums up the emotional part of my answer fairly well.

More rationally, I have to say that I hate mpreg for the simple reason that it's stupid. We're supposed to suspend our disbelief, not hang it by the neck until dead, and a male suddenly developing ovaries strikes me as somewhat beyond the pale. It doesn't help that the idea is most often played for comedy, with the feminized character displaying the most stereotypical, cardboard girlie-traits the author can dredge from sitcoms and stand-up routines. Weepiness, overdramatic cravings for random foodstuffs, and mood swings tend to abound, and it just isn't funny.

If a gay couple-- in fiction or in life-- wants to reproduce, there are options. A surrogate parent. Adoption. Cloning. Hell, in a fictional universe that includes magic, the possibilities are almost endless, and any of them would be a better basis for a story then, 'Oops, the condom broke, and your magical wizardly sperm accidentally Transfigured my upper intestine into a uterus.'

Mpreg is almost intrinsically stupid. It often displays a contempt both for decent storycrafting and femininity. I hates it, my precious, I hates it forever.

Alchemy and Mpreg

[myfatbudgie.livejournal.com]

I like a good story, period, the end. The three Mpreg stories that I've liked are about Sirius: "Back In Black" by Kalena (Imkalena) in which Sirius comes back from behind the veil-and as many prepositions as I can manage-pregnant with Voldemort's baby, the aforementioned "As Sharp As Sunlight" by Amanuensis, and the bodyswitch story that Casira wrote about Sirius switching bodies with Pregnant!Lily. There are a few others, but those are the main ones. I think a good author can use just about anything and make it work. Granted, most of mpreg is horrible, but hey, most of any writing is horrible. We all gotta learn somewhere, right?

I thought about some of JKR's alchemy source material as I thought about my response. Incest, twincest, mpreg, androgynes, it's all there in alchemical allegories. If there's any fandom that has any valid reason to write mpreg, it's this one. Strangely enough, it's the King that gives birth in the alchemical stories. The King/Jupiter allegories that I recognize JKR using are written used for Dumbledore. Strange that fandom should use Snape, Lupin, Draco or Harry in mpreg most. They should be writing about Dumbledore, lol. I guess it figures since Jupiter/Zeus Pitar gave birth to Minerva/Athena in Roman/Greek mythology.

As for the incest? One of the alchemical stories about a brother and sister having a child reminded me an awful lot of James and Lily. The chemicals that Hermione and Ron symbolize in Western alchemy are the same ones that Padma and Parvarti symbolize in Indian alchemy.(Sulphur and Quicksilver). Ron and Hermione are definitely romantic, sooooooo..... I'm sure when I've done more research, I'll find bestiality in the alchemical allegories somewhere, and that should round out the favorite genres of the fandom. Oops, just found a reference to a woman lying in a coffin entwined with a serpent, their mouths pressed together. Also found reference to a baby suckling a goat. Hmmm. Maybe Aberforth had to babysit, Albus, and got a bit too lazy...

[iulia_linnea.livejournal.com]

Admittedly, I haven't read many mpreg fics, but, in general, the idea of a wizard couple desiring a child carried by one of the partners doesn't squick me. I can't think why it doesn't. That said, the sub-genre isn't one I seek out.

What I do mind is the idea of the hormonal, irrational pregnant woman that seems to have informed the characterization of the pregnant wizards in most of the few mpreg fics I've read because not all pregnant women behave in that manner; some women (every woman in my family, for example) take pregnancy in stride and are relatively serene throughout the experience. Where are those characterizations? I think I'd probably read more mpreg if I could find them (and I do tend to backspace out of most mpreg fics because of their summaries, which usually begin: "[insert character] has forced Harry to bear his child . . . ").

[minnow-53.livejournal.com]

Spot of deja-vu here?

Astounding that this has had such a very earnest, reasoned response.

The concept of MPreg is possibly the stupidest one in fanfic, and therefore utterly priceless. I find it hilarious when it's meant to be serious, and even more hilarious when it's not. There are no cirumstances in which I could even start to consider it as a valid basis for a fic that isn't parody, crack or satire.

^_^

[j-lunatic.livejournal.com]

It occurred to me that one issue I have with mpreg is that it appropriates a fundamentally female story and ascribes it to males. (In one story I'm thinking of, Neville gets pregnant while he's still at Hogwarts, and he has to face whether or not he can complete his studies and what he's going to tell the father.) I know that's a peculiar scruple, when the point of fanfiction is to take the universe another author has created and warp it to our own amusement, but there you go.